White House science and technology director John Holdren yesterday expressed optimism -- fueled in part by President Obama's speech to the U.N. on Tuesday -- that the Senate will pass an energy bill before the U.N. climate change talks in December. "It would be nice for the United States to be able to go to Copenhagen with the ingredients of a forward-looking national climate policy through both houses of the Congress," Holdren told a knot of reporters during a conference on energy competitiveness. Holdren said it wouldn't be detrimental if a bill didn't pass by December, but it would require the U.S. government to be a bit more "creative" with what it presents as its policy in Copenhagen. Edited excerpts of the interview follows.

Q: Being a scientist, are you frustrated by the gap between the science on climate change and the political progress on climate change in the U.S.?

Holdren: like many issues, this is the glass that is simultaneously half full and half empty. I think we've come a tremendous distance in terms of political progress on this issue. We're still not where I and the president would like to see us in terms of the science. But, I think we're getting there; I think we're going to get a bill out of the Senate. I think we're going to have a national approach to limiting carbon emissions. I think we're going to get increased cooperation between the industrialized countries and the developing countries on this. I'm actually optimistic even though we're not yet everywhere we need to be. We're moving.

Q: Do you see a disconnect between, on the one hand, your optimism that the Senate will pass a bill by December and concerns that passing a bill by then would be rushing it?

Holdren: The most important reason we should hurry up and get a bill is we lost eight years in inaction on this problem. We couldn't really afford that. We need to get moving. It's important to start to deflect the curve of emissions away from business as usual. We believe we can do that in ways that brings other benefits, that improve air quality, that reduce oil imports, that create new green jobs.

It would be a benefit if we could get a bill before Copenhagen because the world does look to the United States to finally become a global leader on this issue. We're already in the process of becoming a global leader with the huge investments in the Recovery Act and clean energy. But we need a bill. And it's not a prerequisite for success in Copenhagen but certainly would help.

Q: What kind of improvements do you think need to be in the Senate bill in regards to technology?

Holdren: The Senate bill is sitting in several different forms in several different committees. So I wouldn't want to comment on what its exact provisions in those different forms because I'd probably get something wrong. What I would say is that I hope the Senate bill, compared to the House bill that was passed, I would hope that the Senate bill has more support for energy technology innovation, for research and development and demonstration of advanced clean-energy options, because I think meeting our greenhouse gas emissions goals in the most cost-effective way will be easiest with a lot of new technology. And, in my judgment, one of the things I would have preferred to see in the House bill that wasn't really there, was a lot of support for energy technology and innovation. In principle, that could be fixed in the Senate and in conference.

Q: Do you think it would be detrimental if there was not a bill passed by December?

Holdren: If we don't have a bill, we will be making up for it with the creativity and magnitude of our proposals on energy cooperation and with a variety of other measures that we can offer and discuss to move the ball forward. But, again, my hope is -- because it will help -- my hope is we'll get the bill.

Q: Do you have some new reason for optimism that you didn't have a couple weeks ago?

Holdren: If you look at the speech the president gave the at United Nations summit on climate change, I would say the president's engagement and focus and commitment on this, which he's had all along but is now showcasing it this week, is a reason for optimism. I would never bet against this president when he is in pursuit of a national goal that he thinks is important.

Q: How much funding to you anticipate the Senate giving to carbon capture and storage (or sequester) (CCS) technologies?

Holdren: There are lot of interesting technologies around carbon capture and sequestration. I would not want to offer a number at this point. I think this is a very important domain in technology innovation. We burn a lot of coal in the United States. Half of our electricity comes from coal. China and India burn a huge amount of coal. We need to figure out how we can make carbon a whole lot cleaner, including CCS.

Q: Do you anticipate more funding for nuclear research and development?

Holdren: I expect that is also going to happen. I wouldn't want to put a number on that. It would be a great benefit to get a contribution from an expanded nuclear energy sector to this great challenge.

Q: Obama didn't mention nuclear once in his speech. Does that concern you?

Holdren: I don't want to get ahead of the president, but my sense is the president does hold the view that if we can overcome the barriers that have inhibited the expansion of nuclear energy beyond its current level in the United States, if we can get those problems solved, then an expanded contribution from nuclear would be a great benefit.

Q: Are you still confident that Congress will pass a comprehensive energy bill, instead of splitting apart a cap-and-trade system with other energy legislation?

Holdren: I remain optimistic although, again, the politics of this matter is not my special expertise.

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